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Chapter 2444: Dream of the Forgotten God

Sunny stared at her, stunned.

"It… doesn't change much? How so?"

Nephis lingered for a long time, then shrugged.

"My goal has always been to destroy the Nightmare Spell. But… back when I chose that goal, I was young and knew little of the world. As I grew and learned more, my understanding of the world expanded… and therefore, my goals expanded as well. The Nightmare Spell, the Nightmares — to me, they are one and the same. I want to destroy them all. And even if the root evil is the Nightmare itself, the Spell is not free of guilt either."

Her voice grew a little lower.

"You two seem to accept that the Nightmare Spell is a benevolent force, but I disagree. Yes, with what we know now, it is impossible to deny that its purpose, at least, was a noble one. It was created to save the world, no less. However, you forget that it was created by a daemon, a divine being as old as time itself… and their concept of benevolence and nobility would have been quite alien to ours."

Turning around, she looked at Sunny and Cassie coldly.

"Sure, the Nightmare Spell pushes humans to walk the Path of Ascension as fast as possible — in order to give us strength to resist the spreading Nightmare. But have you considered that it might not be going about it in the best possible way? As far as I see it, the Spell's solution to the problem is to simply throw as many bodies at it as possible. Most will die gruesomely, and then, even more people will die. Countless lives will be ruined, and entire generations will be wiped out. But as long as a few survive and achieve a higher Rank… then everything is okay, isn't it?"

Sunny remained silent for a few moments, considering her words. Then, he said tentatively:

"But you can't deny that it's… effective, can you? And that we are in a pretty desperate situation, so it's not like we are spoiled for choices."

Nephis shook her head.

"Is it that effective, though? Or is it crude and wasteful? Think back to everything you have experienced. Was there really no better way? We are the strongest champions of humanity, you and I. But is it because we were the best, or is it because we were lucky? Would things have been different if the Spell had been different? All those lost lives… all that wasted potential. How would the world have turned out if the First Lord of the Bright Castle had not been sent into a death trap by the Spell, for example? How far could he and his cohort have gone? What about Daeron the Serpent King? If the Spell had not sent him into a Nightmare that only someone immune to Corruption could have conquered, what would have happened to the people of the Twilight Sea?"

She shook her head and gritted her teeth.

"You can only see the Spell in a positive light because you are its beneficiary, not its victim. No matter its purpose, the Spell is ruthless, inhuman, and vile. All this great power, all that startling potential… and you tell me that the great Demon of Fate could not come up with anything better than forcing children into the jaws of the Nightmare? Do you know how many Aspirants die every year without ever becoming Sleepers? I know, because I can feel their flames being snuffed out day and night. Was there really no better way?"

White flames ignited in Neph's eyes, and she grimaced.

"You can convince me that the Nightmare Spell is a necessary evil that we are stuck with, but you can't convince me that it is benign. You can't convince me not to hate it."

Then, suddenly, her expression eased, turning cold and impassive once again. Nephis remained silent for a few moments, then sighed and turned back to the window.

"Well… it doesn't matter, anyway. I meant it when I said that this new knowledge doesn't change much — in any case of how I feel about the Spell. A long time ago, I told someone that I intended to conquer all the Nightmares, and destroy the Spell. And I still do. It is just that now, I know that there will be a seventh Nightmare after the sixth, and that I will have to end the Forgotten God first before dismantling the Spell."

She chuckled bitterly.

"There would be no need for it by then anymore, anyway. So this entire argument is moot."

Sunny frowned, then leaned forward a little.

"But that is just the thing, Neph. It is not moot. Have you forgotten what our goal is? It is to prevent the destruction of humanity. Killing the Forgotten God is what Weaver's wanted to achieve, not us. Who cares what that treacherous daemon wanted? Weaver is dead, so we are free to do what we want. And to achieve that… we don't need to risk ourselves in a battle against a being that neither the gods nor the daemons were able to stop."

He clenched his fists.

"We don't need to conquer the Seven Nightmares and destroy the Forgotten God. We don't need to destroy the Spell, either — the Spell can continue keeping that thing asleep. It has contained him for eons, and it can contain him for a few eons more. We just need to become strong enough to contend against the creatures that are threatening humanity here and now… we just need to become Divine."

Others would have called him a fool or a coward for thinking like that, but Sunny did not care. In fact, he considered people who could not see past what was intended for them foolish, instead.

Sure, the Forgotten God was the source of Corruption that plagued the world, and destroying him would theoretically stop the spread of the Nightmare… but so what?

None of them had even considered the possibility of a world without Nightmare Seeds and Nightmare Creatures before. These were merely inalienable facts of life until just a few days ago, and rather than fantasizing about some kind of heavenly paradise, they had been busy planning how to ensure the survival and prosperity of mankind in reality.

As long as its safe resettlement into the Dream Realm could be ensured, and as long as there were champions powerful enough to keep the Cursed and Unholy Nightmare Creatures at bay, humanity could not only survive, but thrive in this world they lived in.

There were already vast cities like Bastion and Ravenheart here, in the Dream Realm… there were electric street lights and fertile fields, roads were being built across the wilderness, trade caravans were traveling between human strongholds, and new settlers were arriving every day. Sure, there were also Nightmare Creatures and horrors beyond description… but that was just life.

He had never known anything different, and most of humanity had not either. And yet, that did not stop people from living their lives… from struggling, striving, and thriving in this dangerous, but generous and stunning world.

That was what Sunny wanted to protect. That was why he had returned from his journey to the edge of the world, resolving to change it.

Slaying some ancient God of Corruption had nothing to do with it. Sunny could sleep peacefully even knowing that the Forgotten God was dreaming about him somewhere out there, imprisoned in a Nightmare by the Spell.

Sure, there was a possibility that the Spell would fail one day and that its prisoner would awaken… but that was not an unfamiliar reality, either. After all, even before the Nightmare Spell descended, people knew that the sun would die one day, and that the entire universe was moving toward eventual demise.

But nobody threw themselves into the sun because of it. The world had always been meant to end one day… probably long after humanity had already destroyed itself ten times over. The awakening of the Forgotten God was no different from the heat death of the universe, in that regard.

Only destroying the Forgotten God would probably be far more difficult and deadly than destroying the universe. After all, he was older than the universe, having participated in its creation.

…And that was whom Weaver wanted them to kill?

Sunny shook his head.

"Becoming Divine is already impossible enough. Sure, I understand that we are indoctrinated to count and do everything in sevens, and that it feels wrong to ignore the logical conclusion of the path laid out for us by Weaver… but our goal has been to become gods in order to protect humanity. Not to challenge the final Nightmare and correct an error made by the true gods when designing the world. Not to eliminate the Flaw of existence. A perfect world is a dead world, anyway, so why would we want to throw ourselves into something entirely fatal, and meaningless on top of that?"

Nephis looked at him with a deep scowl.

"To prevent numerous people from having their choice robbed from them by the Nightmare Spell. To save countless lives from dying in the Nightmares. To ensure that the end of the world never comes. To destroy the Spell once and for all! Why… why can't you see it?"

Sunny did not respond for a while, looking at her silently.

He knew… he knew that deep down, Nephis was a selfish person. That she did what she wanted, and it was merely a happy coincidence that what she wanted was to be a righteous and decent person — according to her own harsh understanding of righteousness and decency, of course.

But what she really wanted was to destroy the Spell, which she hated — and do so in a way she would not be ashamed of.

To avenge herself upon the world.

The Nightmare Gates, the Nightmare Spell, it was indeed all the same to her. She would not be able to let go of her most ardent desire easily.

But…

Sunny was a selfish person, too.

"I see it. But I… I simply don't want you to throw your life away, Neph. Not in an attempt to create some kind of flawless Garden of Eden, of all things. I need you alive… please, try to see that as well."

They both remained silent for a while, looking at each other.

In the end, Nephis sighed and turned away.

"...Why are we arguing, anyway? It's not even guaranteed that we will survive the Fifth Nightmare, let alone the Sixth. We can't even think about challenging the Seventh right now, and won't be for many years. So… let's cross that bridge when we get there."

Sunny lingered for a while, then nodded reluctantly.

"Sure. Let's focus on what we need to do right now, indeed."

He knew that she had not been convinced, and that her determination to destroy the Nightmare Spell was as firm as ever.

But… Sunny also knew that many things could change with time. So, he tacitly agreed not to continue this conversation later, for now.

Nephis sighed.

"So, what are your plans?"

He leaned back and smiled.

"Well, since you so kindly disposed of that Cursed Demon and cleared the path to the Mirror Maze, I thought I'd get Effie and explore True Bastion a little. Oh… but I want to make a short stop in the frozen wastelands west of here first. There's something there I want to try finding. I'll depart for Bastion after that."

Nephis hesitated for a moment, then nodded.

"Good. Actually, I found something after the battle with Abjuration. A fragment of one of Mordret's Reflections. It could have been there from when we unleashed that Cursed Demon in True Bastion a year ago, but something tells me that it got there later. So, he might be hiding somewhere in that Mirror Maze… it's good that you'll be heading there."

Sunny's smile dimmed a little.

"That guy? How wonderful."

With that, he turned to Cassie.

"He was not hiding in that piece of mirror by chance, was he?"

She shook her head.

"No… Abjuration would have gotten him, and I checked just to make sure on top of that."

Sunny nodded with relief.

"Good. Then… I guess we are done for today. I think we all need some time to digest all this new information."

He looked at Nephis, knowing that the two of them had a lot to talk about... and talk through. But that was better done alone.

Outside the window, the sun was already rising from beyond the horizon.

A new day had come to Ravenheart.

Comments 204

  1. Offline
    + 50 -
    Just let the world burn. It would be a beautiful sight to behold.
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    1. Offline
      + 10 -
      Name checks out
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    2. Offline
      + 00 -
      pfp too
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  2. Offline
    + 10 -
    I already know how this will end. Sunny and Nephs will challenge the 7th Nightmare and instead of following Weaver's plan and killing the Forgotten God, Sunny will try to save him because they are in a nightmare and destiny can be changed there or when Nephs destroys the Nightmare spell, Sunny will cast a new one that he himself created.
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  3. Offline
    + 72 -
    Sunny was wrong in the Forgotten Shore, and he is wrong here, again. He is trying to just hold on in a world trying to destroy him. In the forgotten shore, if he had his way, they would have died slowly, year by year, and then quickly as their numbers dwindled. Nephis saved about 100 people, and the rest were given that chance as well.

    Now Sunny wants to what? Do 1 more nightmare and stop, thinking that's enough to protect humanity for how long exactly? He is obviously going to have to do it for the story, but man, dude should really figure it out by now, there are no half measures. The nightmares need to end.
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    1. Offline
      + 51 -
      But if humanity can thrive in these conditions what is his fault in thinking that?
      Divine Titan should be enough to stop all the threats to the world other than Unholy Titan. His goal is valid when compared to Neph's.
      Taking down the nightmare spell? That's certain death as the forgotten god will awaken.
      Plotting to kill the forgotten god that took the cores of the gods and demons to lull it to sleep. To imprison it, new concepts of time and space and death had to be made.
      These ants are plotting to destroy a universe, you realise how absurd this sounds?
      The sun going supernova analogy in a billion years is very apt for this situation I must say
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      1. Offline
        + 11 -
        Can humanity thrive? They are literally losing their last strongholds on earth as they are debating this. And his plan still involves people dying in the spell or to random NC's. And there is still the risk of an Unholy Titan like you said, or hell, of the spell not working anymore and the forgotten god waking up. or dreaming himself into existence or something.

        Sunny and Nephis becoming Divine Titans puts them on the same level as the Forgotten God, or close enough. Ending it and the spell is the only way to really go, Sunny is just being a coward again like he was in the Forgotten Shore, but the same fate awaits them as it would in FS if they had listened to him and just stayed there instead of fighting their way out. Half measures don't work.
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        1. Offline
          + 10 -
          There is not guarantee that destroying the nightmare spell and the forgotten god could even save existence itself for all I know it could potentially cause it's destruction, irl there is no white and black situations it's mostly in grey and in SW the same concept could be applied as well
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          1. Offline
            + 11 -
            They just realized that the nightmares and creatures are coming from the forgotten gods dreams. Destroying the Forgotten god destroys his dreams destroys nightmares from coming from his dreams.

            Anyway, there is no way this story doesn't end without that big fight against the FG. So it's all moot, Nephis will be right in the end, just like she was in Forgotten Shore.
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            1. Offline
              + 00 -
              Correct
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        2. Offline
          + 10 -
          Quote: Jon Smith
          Sunny and Nephis becoming Divine Titans puts them on the same level as the Forgotten God, or close enough.


          No, no it doesn't. War, Shadow, Sun, Beast, Storm and Heart together still didn't kill FG (each of them being stronger than Ariel who killed an Unholy Titan single-handedly). We have been told multiple times that Daemons and True Gods transcend Divine Rank, and 12 of these beings were use to create the Spell that could only lull FG, the God that now encompass 6 divine realms out of 7, while on its way to consume the 7th. Even in the hypothetic that Sunny and Nephis reached True God level, that's still just 2 of them, against a being that hold off 6.

          As for living without the Spell, they have already proved that is possible:

          -People dying in the First Nightmare?
          As long as they are inside Nephis' Domain there is no chance for that to happen + In the next years new Sovereigns will rise, which means more Domains and more protection

          -Still wanting to become an Awakened?
          There is Rain's school for natural ascension

          -Winter solstice's problem?
          Just physically go to a Citadel and anchor yourself to the Gateway before the solstice

          -Cursed and Unholy abominations?
          Once Sunny and Nephis become Divine this problem will be practically resolved

          I know for storytelling reasons they'll definitely fight FG, but can you really blame Sunny for thinking is an unneccessary risk?
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          1. Offline
            + 00 -
            Yes, cause that thinking is not sustainable. And it’s the same exact thinking that anvil and song had, that sunny hated… it’s incredibly ironic
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  4. Offline
    + 60 -
    This angle of 'should we kill the FG' felt totally wrong for this conversation. Sunny and Nephis are two ants chatting if they should conspire to take down the sun.

    This is not pertinent now, it's not pertinent when they upgrade their tier of existence to Sacred either. When they finally become Divine, it will be something they would be allowed to consider.

    So I don't get the point of them arguing over it, or us arguing over who's right, they're both wrong because arguing over this "choice" that they can't even comprehend is pointless.

    It's just Sunny jabbing at Nephis's motivation because we haven't had her character progress much since she's been Sov.

    But having Sunny take a stand against killing FG this early on is so stupid, considering we have to get brainblasted by upgrading ranks twice, his current perspective is that of a Sov, compared to what a Sacred or Divine being would want to do, it is not comparable.
    Neph keeping her hate boner is just as stupid, I think she might have repeated the 'muh dreamers that didn't make it' like 3x, sure we care about individuals, but that's not why you hate the NM. She got one of the biggest mysteries of reality explained to her and her perspective shifted all the way from 'f#ck the NM' to 'f#ck the NM'.
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    1. Offline
      + 30 -
      They literally ended the argument because of those reasons
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    2. Offline
      + 30 -
      Totally agree, there is no reason to discuss this now and both parties are wrong.

      Sunny is wrong because he is looking at the situation with the prospective of a Supreme.

      Nephis is wrong becuase she is talking about slaying a True God while completely ignoring the implications nor considering other ways to deal with it.
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  5. Offline
    + 72 -
    It's like Nethys literally said "Quantity over quality"... This may be weird, but seriously? Would you all be here if not for all those sacrifices? Would there be hardened survivors from the Forgotten Shore, would she be a messiah in the eyes of the public, if not for the Forgotten Shore and its sacrifices? Would the world have had as much opportunity and time to spare if one of the nine had not found the truth in the tomb? Or would it have been better if the snake king had not been trapped, but had died a different death, without doing anything significant to break the spell? Would Sunny and Nethys have survived if he and his people had not been in the third nightmare? Seriously, she pisses me off. Does she really not understand that the chances of killing a sleeping god are close to zero? Does she understand what will happen if she dies in the process? Does she understand that the only small chance they have is because of all those sacrifices and the weaver????
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    1. Offline
      + 21 -
      Why have people downvoted this I cant fathom
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    2. Offline
      + 00 -
      The alternative is no better, your only waiting for death to strike…
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    3. Offline
      + 00 -
      Just because someone bled for you doesn't mean you have to like the process that made them bleed in the first place
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  6. Offline
    + 30 -
    No mention of Asterions graffiti or the worshipping moon people still… they are heading down the road without noticing the street signs pointing to danger. sasuke
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  7. Offline
    + 70 -
    70% chance there's gonna be a final battle where sunny kills nephis
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    1. Offline
      + 100 -
      Indeed. I also think that in the end, everything will come down to the final battle between Nefis and Sunny. Moreover, remember Cassie's prophecy where she said she saw the battle between the angels of darkness and light at the very beginning of the novel, at the Forgotten Shore. It seems that this prophecy wasn’t about the battle between Sunny and Nefis in the Crimson Spire at all. It could be a vision of their final duel as gods.
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      1. Offline
        + 40 -
        Do you think that maybe the whole romance between Sunny and Nephis was planned by Cassie to change that fate?
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        1. Offline
          + 40 -
          Possible, but unlikely
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  8. Offline
    + 10 -
    Called and commented it the moment we found this out. Sunny will ultimately, since he loves Nephis too much, try and help destroy the forgotten God and finally the spell. Which Im sure is not all but currently, on the surface, it is. And it will not be easy, it’s like he said (Suicide)
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    1. Offline
      + 00 -
      not easy? its like ants conspiring against the universe.
      if they become divine it would be like planets or starts trying to destroy the universe
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      1. Offline
        + 00 -
        Like I said, it’s suicide
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  9. Offline
    + 29 -
    Sunless is ultimately in the wrong here. His whole argument boils down to “Since the world will EVENTUALLY end in the far distant future anyways whats the point of trying to save or improve it currently ?” This argument is illogical and down right stupid. Also, contradicts he’s desire to safeguard all of humanity from threats and keep his loved ones safe. Killing the Forgotten God solves the problem at its roots and humanity will all the more safer for it.

    It will result in the Spell becoming unnecessary, then Sunless and Nephis can decide to either keep the Spell existing for maybe another decade or three. The mundane humans can be kept safe from the First Nightmare within Nephis’ domain. They can then destroy the Spell once there are enough Saints, Sovereigns and Spirits guarding humanity. There is a reason why facing off against the Forgotten God is the 7th Nightmare itself and that’s because it is mostly like that Weaver created the Spell as a temporary solution to the Forgotten God. The Spell isn’t designed to last that’s why Weaver whats new gods to be born in order to kill the threat to all of existence. Sunless’ willingness to accept the fact that the Forgotten God to eventually wake up instead of attacking it while it is still in a dormant and weak state isn’t a wise decision at all.


    Just because humanity has always had to deal with the Nightmare Spell and its horrors DOESN’T mean it’s okay or justifiable to let the Spell continue exist and allowing it to cause innumerable deaths for years to come. That’s like saying since oppression and inequality have always existed that we SHOULDN’T try to undo them as best we can. It will make Sunless no different from Anvil or Ki Song, he hated the two of them for having power the help humanity but choosing not to anything. During the final battle of Godgrave, Sunny even criticized Anvil for not wanting to immigrate all of humanity from Waking World to the Dream Realm simply because of how difficult it would be.

    So why is he so against conquering the 7th Nightmare ? It’s not like the plan is for only him and Nephis to take it on alone, the plan would be for Nephis, Cassia, Effie, Jet, Kai and himself to all reach the Divine Rank. It would be two Divine Titans and four Divine Beasts against one Unholy Titan. Forgotten God is most likely in a weakened state too. And even if it’s just Nephis and Sunless who become Divine, it would still be two Divine Titans against one Unholy Titan. Not mention that Sunless has 6 Avatars all of which would also be Divine Titans and should he master the 7th step of Shadow Dance somehow then Serpent would also be a Divine Titan. Sunless has been shown the path that will allow him and others to get rid off problems plaguing humanity for good but he doesn’t want to because it’s not want he originally wanted to do ? Dispute the fact that doing so will result in the need to safeguard humanity to become less necessary than it currently is.

    Whether he likes or not, killing the Forgotten God benefits EVERYONE in the end including Sunny himself.
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    1. Offline
      + 50 -
      Are u actually being serious.....2 divine titans and 4 divine beast u think tgar can ever be enough.....Ariel killed an Unholy titan singlehandedly....but he and all his siblings were losing the war against the gods terribly.....the gods creating concepts like space,time,death,light...and even they couldnt resist...u think that the gods are simple divine titans the whole of creation are their bodies...just a chosen avatar is divine... weavers 7 cores as well as the cores of all the gods and daemons was used as a weapon to just restrain himm...a lullaby...and u think 2 divine titans and 4 divine beasts are enough ..just entering the void corrupted weavers hand and even divine flame couldnt purify it thats a divine titan imagine fighting the forgotten god who uas spent eons being corrupted and absorbing 6 of the 7 divine realms why wouldnt he not want to fight..... its Nephis tgts crazy..unless absolutely necessary i belive fighting the forgotten god is the worst idea but alas ..it will be done

      Ur talking about 7 incarnations even a divine shadow is just one of the creations or blessed of the shadow god if the original couldnt then how could he
      .....
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    2. Offline
      + 61 -
      Wow, you forgot that Sunny didn't see from reader's perspective.
      By that logic you should start preparing to destroy Andromeda galaxy, since it will clash with our milky way 4,5 billion years later.

      1. What do you mean inevitable? Dream God is prisoned for eons, and will continue so for a few more eons. There's a huge chance that it will outlive Sunny (although g3 most likely make fighting FG inevitable in the future)
      2. Say the cohort become all divine, the chance of defeat is still high, who s gonna protect humanity then? this is an enemy that 6 gods and 6 divine titans can't defeat. I assume that Gods are a rank above divine since Daemon are losing very bad in doom war.
      3. Why rush for only 7 people can challenge FG in seventh nightmare? I doubt its that weakened since it already consumed 5 out 6 divine realm. When you can built thousands of divine armies and fight it in your teritory fully built with traps just like the ones he used against the wolf. Remember they have eons, assuming that Sunny and Nephis are immortal after reaching divine.
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    3. Offline
      + 02 -
      Totally agree. I made another comment, but the gist of it is, Sunny was wrong in the Forgotten Shore, and he is wrong here for the same reason. In the FS, if he had his way, there wouldn't be 100 survivors. there would be 5 as Nephis, Sunny, Cassie, Effie and Kai escaped the final destruction of the city after 4 or 5 years.

      Sunny keeps defaulting to "its too hard, and whatever, this hell is good enough". Nephis is saying "no, it isn't. We need to rise above this so that the people in the future don't have to live through this hell".

      Sunny is OK with everyone slowly dying as humanity keeps being pushed back and crushed. Nephis is willing to sacrifice her life to try to stop that. She is right, he is wrong. Again.
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    4. Offline
      + 10 -
      It would be two Divine Titans and four Divine Beasts against one Unholy Titan.


      Unholy Titan? If the Forgotten God could read this, they would probably feel insulted. Ariel alone killed an Unholy Titan without much struggle, and we know from Eurys that the Daemens were losing the war BADLY against the Gods, the same Gods that could not kill the Forgotten God dispite being 6vs1. And you think 3 Divine Titans (if we count Serpent)+4 Divine Beasts is enough? Also, remember that the Forgotten God currently encompass 6 out 7 divine realms and they are on their way to consume the 7th, making themselves even stronger than they were before, even if dormant.
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  10. Offline
    + 00 -
    В любом случае придется этой компании сразиться с богом снов, скорее всего это будут обладатели божественного аспекта. Просто не совсем понятно как это будет списываться, если каждый бог создал свою вселенную. Чем его убивать?
    И ещё, скорее всего и я надеюсь на такой исход, не будет счастливого конца. Скорее всего Санни будет с Нефис сражаться и кто то останется на месте забытого бога(одно воплощение Санни?)).
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